the get


Below is a rough transcript; links  to come.


Ivy: Hi, everyone, I’m Ivy!

Rhiana: And I’m Rhiana.

Ivy: And we are the get.

Rhiana: the…get…

Did you like that little base right there I tried?

Ivy: Was there base? It was base and high

Rhiana: I was trying to modulate!

Ivy: You’re like—

Rhiana: I contain multitudes.

Ivy: Oh, there are levels! Okay. Girl, I wasn’t prepared for the levels, could we have a little alcohol ointment or whatever, I don’t know what loosens people up!

Rhiana: A lubricant? Ointment?! Do you have a rash?!

Ivy: I think the second record might have been like a rash. It was just so stiff and uncomfortable.

Rhiana: Itchy, dry.

Ivy: Mhm. Just a struggle. We were like, “Oh, God, how do we say our names?! How do we welcome people to this space?”

Rhiana: How do we come in?

Ivy: Right, it’s like the door’s over there. Come in, take your shoes off. Don’t fuck up the carpet.

Rhiana: That should be our intro—the Xscape song! “Kick of your shoes and relax your feet, party on down to the Xscape beat. Just kick it. Just kick it!”

Ivy: (hums along) Yeah, so I don’t know all of the words, so I’m just gonna be like (hums again) just in the back, the random hype girl that’s like kind off and doesn’t really know what’s going on.

[Clip from Xscape]

Ivy: So, this is our first episode, and we wanted to start out by talking a little bit about the name.

Rhiana: So, we named the podcast, “the get,” based off of some advice I heard from a really great lady friend of mine, Noorain. I was talking to her when I was going into interview season earlier this year, starting to interview for jobs and stuff, and I was really nervous because I don’t feel like the most confident person in interview settings. I don’t know if anyone does, and if you do, you’re probably a douchebag.

Ivy: Rhiana! That’s not true! Damn. I feel okay in interview settings.

Rhiana: But, no. So, there are people, like you, lovely people, who do feel pretty good going into interviews, but I’m not one of them, and so I was really nervous, so I went to her to ask for advice—and she was just like talking to me. One thing that always stuck out is that she told me that when I walk in there, like, I have to remember that I am the get. I am the thing that they need to have, I’m the thing that they want, and that I am…not a prize, but something to be gotten. I am an asset. And so, that always stuck out to me. So, when we were thinking about names for the podcast, I came up with tons of ones that Ivy rejected.

Ivy: Yep. Flat out abandoned.

Rhiana: Flat out abandonded.

Ivy: Yeah, absolutely not. I had to rebuke some, actually.

Rhiana: Did you have a secret prayer circle for me, Ivy?

Ivy: Yes, I did.

Rhiana: I didn’t even know about it!

Ivy: Yep. I was praying and fasting about this!

Rhiana: So, while Ivy was calling on the Lord to intercede, I came up with “the get.” and Ivy agreed, and now that is what we are called!

Ivy: Yes.

Rhiana: I think it’s also just because we want our listeners to always remember that they are the get, that you are an asset, a thing to be gotten! You’re the thing that people want—and it’s so easy to forget that, especially if you’re a woman, especially if you’re a woman of color, especially if you’re a member of the number of marginalized groups in the US. So, we just wanted that to always be a reminder of self-love and of just how fucking awesome you are, all the time. Unless you’re not awesome, and then you should …

Ivy: Unless you’re not the get, and then you are just a disease, or something, just an obstacle to progress and we hope to never encounter you—especially in the workplace, especially in relationships.

Rhiana: The other reason we named it the get is that it’s a big pet peeve of mine how people talk about women as expendable and replaceable. The idea that any girl is the same as any other girl, and as long as you have one, it doesn’t even matter. It just gets on my nerves! It’s just so irritating. And so one of the reasons we called it the get was to—just in a small way—interject in that to say, “We’re not all replaceable; we’re not all the same. Y’all also need to step your game up.” I don’t know. I’m just so offended.

Ivy: I think the get also relates to reminding yourself not to deal with bullshit in relationships. You know, society is structured to make us think that we don’t have value, that we always need something from someone else, and I never, never, never appreciate that. I’m dark skinned. I’m the dark-skinned one. The single one…the dark skinned one… And sometimes I’m out on dates and dudes will be like, “Oh, your skin is just so beautiful,” and I’m supposed to be greatful that they complimented my dark skin, but it’s like, if you remember that you’re the get, you’re just like, “I know. I know it’s great.”

Rhiana: (I feel like Ivy likes to call me light-skinned, even though I’m dark-skinned, but that’s neither here nor there.) I’ve been in a relationship for a long time and we’re engaged, and people make it sound like that’s the thing I should be the most grateful for in my life. They’re like, “You got a man, and he went to Yale, too?!” as if that’s my biggest accomplishment. Which is strange, because in some ways I do think of it as one of my biggest accomplishments. We basically became adults together. We’ve been together for six years now, and keeping a relationship for that long and keeping it healthy has been something that I’m proud of. But, to think that it is something that will define my life from here on out is sort of bizarre to me.

Ivy: And that’s not really what people are complimenting you on. They’re not like, “Wow. You guys have been committed and really grown together, and been through hard times.” It’s just like, “You got a man, congratulations.”

Rhiana: Or like you got that ring! If we broke up, some of Nigel’s more basic friends would definitely be like, “Oh, you can just get another one. We’ll just get you another girl.” But after being with another person for that long, it’s clear that I have qualities of my own that are admirable.

Ivy: More than admirable! Brilliant, beautiful, fly, cooking, working out, doing all that stuff, loving your partner…

Rhiana: Yeah! And it’s almost as if he got anyone with a vagina who was breathing and didn’t smell like hot garbage on Wednesdays, he’d be doing great for himself!

Ivy: Right.

Rhiana: Whereas, if we broke up, women would say, “You know, I don’t know, you better get on this American Ninja course with the rest of us.”

Ivy: Yeah, good luck, girl. They’d be kinda sad, too, like, damn, now there’s another girl competing for the limited pool. The struggle continues!

Rhiana: Or, they’d say, “What did he do?!” and anything short of murdering a person, they’d say, “Well, I think you can work it out.” You could be like, “Well, he got three women pregnant, and I had to bail him out the other week for unpaid parking tickets, and he didn’t pay the light bill…” and they’d still be like, “Girl, I think you can work it out.”

Ivy: Right. You know God hates divorce…even though you’re not even married yet…

Rhiana: “He Chris Brown’d me. He showed up with Rhiana on Christmas, or on TV, and he told me he was going to the store…” and they’d be like, “Girl, you can make it work.” They’d try to karrueche me. “Girl, deal with it.”

Ivy: “But he went to Yale, so…” I think your point speaks to the point that people think women are just interchangeable, that any basic-ass dude is better than nothing—which I completely disagree with. You know? Literally, I’m out here, and I’m single, and that’s fine—cause I could get random-ass dude, that’s not a problem.

Rhiana: Dick is plentiful.

Ivy: Have you heard that phrase? Dick is abundant and of low value. That’s the realist.

Rhiana: It is so true.

Ivy: Hit up Tinder. Hit up Hinge. Hit up OKCupid.

Rhiana: Hit up Black People Meet

Ivy: Hit up Meld (or whatever). Hit up the Ivy one. Dudes are everywhere! But then people are like, “Why do you have standards?!” Can I have standards? “Who cares about education and employment?” But I’m educated! And I’m employed! Can I have a partner? And they’re like, “No! Why are you so bougie? Why are you so snobbish?” I’m not saying those people are of low value, but can’t we have something in common? “No. Just submit. Submit to anybody. Have some kids.”

Rhiana: I feel like nothing reminds me of the patriarchy more than when I’m walking down the street, clearly in work clothes—and I don’t walk slow, so I’m walking fast like I have somewhere to go—and a homeless dude will roll up and be like, “Girl, what’s your number?”

Ivy: Rhiana, this is so real—and also kinda messed up…

Rhiana: The thing is, I’m not mad because he’s homeless. Unfortunate things happen to people—it’s not at all “shame to him,” but if it were another way, we’d all be like, “what are you doing?” Even if it was another girl who was not completely skinny with a dude who is fit, people go nuts.

Ivy: You’re right. You’re right.

Rhiana: “How did she get with him?! That’s so crazy. Her BMI is 30, and he’s a weightlifter. This is nuts!” Like it’s something off the chain, but then you walk down the street and dude could be like,  “Hey girl,” but when you don’t want to respond he’ll be all, “How dare. I thought you were ugly anyway.” You’re like, okay, first of all: lies, fallacies, and fairytales.

Ivy: Tell the truth! So true.

Rhiana: And shame the damn Devil. And two: how dare?! It’s just crazy.

Ivy: Not to go in, but you have no business even speaking to me. I’m looking right; you’re looking crazy, just back up! I’m really trying to refrain from going in right now…

Rhiana: I am too. I feel bad. As soon as we publish this, people are going to be like, “You hate homeless people.” But that is absolutely not the point.

Ivy: Right. If you need help, I can help you—but I can’t help you with my number.

Rhiana: That’s the thing! It’s never as though he’s coming up to be like, “Hey, I thought you were really beautiful” or engage in a conversation—which is a whole different thing. It’s not like we’re trying to have a human interaction. You’re literally rolling up like, “Girl, I thought that ass was phat, can I get yo number.” First of all, how did you think that was going to work out? Two, where would we even go?!

Ivy: Let’s try to hang right here?

Rhiana: At the bus stop?

Ivy: Did you just want to talk now? We’re talking, but I have to go.


[Cheesy 90s music interlude; thank you GarageBand]


Ivy: Our first segment today is going to be on politics, which we on the get define broadly (I’m getting corporate for you, Rhiana)

Rhiana: She’s putting on her phone voice.

Ivy: Yes. I am doing my professor voice. We define politics broadly, both electoral and identity.

[Real laughter, not cackle reel.]

Ivy: We have a politics segment called, “America, WHY?!?!!” because that’s how I feel so often when I read the news and I think about current events. The most current event going on right now in America is the Presidential race—particularly, the realest part is the GOP slate of wild candidates.

Rhiana: Everybody is running, which I just feel like, we don’t even have to introduce the segment, because somebody’s uncle is running. Everybody’s uncle is in the race. Who dropped out today…?

Ivy: Scott Walker.

Rhiana: Oh, Scott Walker. I didn’t even know he was running.

Ivy: Someone else said that. Y’all aren’t following closely. It’s cool, this is my segment. It’s fine. He was leading earlier, a few months ago. He was leading and giving Jeb Bush a run for his money and stuff, and then Trump came with his … you know, nationalist, not even nationalist, because I know America is deeply problematic, but xenophobic, that’s the word I was looking for, his xenophobic, anti-Muslim rhetoric. Anti-woman. I think Scott Walker was getting all of the hater Republicans, and now…

Rhiana: Which is now an official segment. I hope they poll people like that. “Regular Republicans, hater Republicans.”

Ivy: Regular Republicans are so confused. They’re like, “Wait, I thought we just wanted to have lower taxes for rich people…?” And the hater Republicans are like, “Nope, we actually hate everybody and want a president who also hates everybody and will make everybody’s life a living hell.”

Rhiana: But I don’t know. I guess I pay attention to a certain extent, but also I can’t take it seriously because of all of the people running, and two because, don’t we already know that Jeb Bush is going to win the nomination?

Ivy: I mean, I hope so. I hope so.

Rhiana: I feel like it’s sort of a foregone conclusion, whereas the Democratic field there’s actually more of a chance of …I actually don’t know who the Democratic candidate will end up being. Hillary’s campaign is sort of hitting the skids already, floundering. Bernie Sanders has a lot of surge, but I don’t think he’ll be able to take it through primaries. And then there’s the Biden wildcard, where no one really knows if he’s going to enter or not. If he does, there’s a very good chance he could win the primaries, but I still feel like no one is sure if he’s going to run or not, and who his running mate is going to be, and all that.

Ivy: I think Biden is an interesting candidate because I was reading an article about how he was a major architect of the tough-on-crime policy that the Democrats were pushing in the 90’s—so now that Black Lives Matter and all of this new civil rights movement, and people are shedding light on all of the shadiness in law enforcement, people have talked about how Biden’s record on that would be under harsh scrutiny. Obviously Hillary is also implicated in all of that, and so is Martin O’Malley, who everybody forgets about—I feel so bad for him. I’m like, “Are you good?”

Rhiana: All the time. Poor little tig tig.

Ivy: Thank you for trying, but also…

Rhiana: He’s the Tito Jackson, he’s the Michelle of the Democratic primary.

Ivy: He really is! Even more so, because Baltimore was popping off this year, and then everybody was looking at him like, “Wait a minute, that’s your city. You were the mayor at some point.” With this topic, we wanted to bring in the Harvard Business Review article, which sounds wild, but we are two Ivy league people, so it’s fine. Anyhoo, this Harvard Business Review article from 2013, and the title is so shady.

Rhiana: This is just what happens with quality clapback…I can’t decide if this is clapback or shade, this article.

Ivy: Can you define the difference between shade and clapback for those who are uninitiated?

Rhiana: For the uninitiated? People always use shade wrong, and if you ever read Jezebel, there’s a whole section called “Shade Court” by Kara Brown, and she is an expert on shade—I’m not nearly as much of a stickler as she is, because I use shade probably in ways that don’t mean it. Shade, in essence, is a very, very, subtle insult. The key to shade is that it is not an outright insult. If you tell somebody, “You’re an imbicile,” that’s not shade, that’s just an insult. If someone says something dumb, and you’re like, “Mmm. You know, your opinion is always so well formed.” Shade. That is shade. Right? Because it’s very subtle, you didn’t really say anything bad, but everyone knows what you meant, which is like, “You’re a dummy.” Clapback is when you literally just come for somebody who generally has come for you.

Ivy: Yeah, there has to be the “back.” You can’t just come for somebody.

Rhiana: If you clap, then you just came for somebody, and that was the end of that. In recent memory, Nicki Minaj and Miley Cyrus was the perfect embodiment of a clapback. No shade, that is not shade. She called her out after having the good Lord on her heart and thanking her pastor.

Nicki Minaj: You know, this is so random, you know who I want to thank tonight? My pastor. (cheers) Thank you, Pastor Lydia. I love you so much. And now, back to this bitch that had a lot to say about me the other day in the press. Miley, what’s good?


Rhiana: There were layers to this clapback. She got right with the Lord first; she acknowledged her church home so they could cover her in the blood of Jesus, and then she came for that ass. “You, you, trying to over there? Thinking I didn’t see? Honey, I saw, and you don’t want this problem.” That is a clapback. So, this article, I can’t decide if it’s shade or clapback because he’s not really clapping back at anything, but ….

Ivy: I mean, except the patriarchy…

Rhiana: Either way, this is what happens when you do quality shade or clapback, it’s a slow burn. It’s potent enough to last for years, and that’s exactly what this article was.

Ivy: Right. So, in the article—we haven’t even told y’all the title! The title is, “Why do incompetent men become leaders?” and I saw that and wanted to share it based on the title alone, because I also wonder, why?

Rhiana: I did share it because of the title alone! I hadn’t read it before I shared it! I was like, “Whatever it is, it’s true.”

Ivy: You know, sometimes you just trust the people posting. Like, well, so and so read it, so I’m just going to share this, because I already know some of y’all need to read this in the Timeline. Some of y’all in the network need to know. Basically, the article sort of talked about research and findings. A lot of times in research on gender disparities and racial disparities we talk about the underrepresented group: why women don’t advance, why women don't assert themselves, the glass ceiling and blah, blah, blah. This article was like, (paraphrase) “Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually the structures are such that incompetent, maybe sociopathic men are incentivized to proceed through the ranks to high level positions, whereas women are punished if they display those sorts of traits, and if they don’t display them, can’t advance because they’re not competitive enough. They don't fit into the culture of the company and whatnot.” We thought it would be interesting as it relates to what’s happening in the Presidential election in general.

Rhiana: That’s all that’s happening in the presidential election in general—at least on the GOP side. There’s no other explanation for …okay there are tons of explanations for why Donald Trump became a frontrunner, I don't’ know, whatever we want to call him, in the GOP field. There’s tons of explanations: all this upheaval about race, lots of feelings about class and inequality, about nation, anxiety about America becoming more of a globalized economy and less of a very clear super-power. All sorts of things. All sorts of anxieties. But, at the end of the day, this is a man—how many times has he been in bankruptcy? This is a man that under no circumstances should be running a country. Like, none. You shouldn’t even take him seriously. He’s a person who at most should have a very angry Tumblr that sometimes gets retweeted or reposted, and lots of notes—but that should be the end of it. A very angry Reddit thread is about how far this should have gotten. The only reason he has a stage is because he’s not only white and old and rich, he also embodies so many of these “characteristics of leadership” being brash, talking about stuff he doesn’t know about…

Ivy: Right, bluster.

Rhiana: Just foolishness.

Ivy: It’s interesting because I feel like America’s identity is so wrapped up in this fragile masculinity idea of bluster and talking about what you don’t know about and muscling your way through problems—and that’s why we have so many issues, and that’s why we’re in the place that we’re in foreign policy-wise. “We’re America. We’re independent, and we’re leaders, and we’re strong!” There’s data, people have studied these things and told us that whatever we’re doing is wrong, “But who cares about data? Who cares about science?” You know? That kind of rhetoric is valued and reinforced, apparently in the business world and the political sphere as well, which is just so depressing as a social scientist, to know the data and the research, but to watch nonsense going on in your country.

Rhiana: And it’s interesting how these arguments were turned against President Obama, especially in his first term, where people were talking about him being too intellectual. He didn’t have the bluster and he didn’t talk in these ways, and people tried to use that to be like, “He’s a professor, not a president,” which was a very interesting dichotomy. First of all, why wouldn’t you want a professor to be your president? I kind of understand why you might not want a CEO to be your president, but literally someone who studies the Constitution?

Ivy:..which you claim to value and want to protect at all costs, but then don’t know what’s happening with it. There, also, people were being disingenuous with that critique because if he were more blustery as a black man, we already know that wouldn’t have gone over well. When they talk about Obamacare, it’s just so wild. They talk about it as if it’s this oppressive thing that he did to people, like he didn’t get votes or go through the system the way you’re supposed to.

Rhiana: They do make it sound like he set it off, like he rolled into the capitol with his crew and was like *clap*. It was actually a yearlong fight. There were many channels. Nuns on a bus were involved. When you get nuns on a bus involved, you’re doing some really heavy duty community organizing.

Ivy: And there was a vote! Y’all lost the vote! You didn’t have the Congressmen. Why are you posting revote after revote losing over and over again and wasting taxpayer dollars? I just don’t get it. They’re really treating him and his legislation as if he’s an intruder, as if he’s not the President of the United States, but like some foreign invader, so they’re trying to use all of these random processes to counteract it. But since he’s in the right, he is a professor and did things by the book, it’s just a waste of time.

Rhiana: It’s interesting, too, because before I read this article, really before we were having this discussion, I always chalked that up to race, like most people do. Thinking about this, though, as something that always frustrates me with racial issues, it’s rarely just about race. Usually, there are other things going on, and people make it so difficult to talk about. Basically, all I am trying to say is that race is obviously going on, but there’s probably also these other things, such as conflict over the masculinity that he embodies, about the leadership style that he embodies, the way that departs from what we think of as a president—which compounds all of these other things about race going on as well.

Ivy: I’m really intrigued to see if Hillary becomes the president how they engage her, how the hateful obstructionist whatever Republican party engages with her, because I have been thinking a lot about how the obstruction was about his race, and I don’t know that they would have treated Hillary in the same way. I’m not exactly sure, but it doesn’t play the same way to be as obstructionist with this white woman. Also, on the flip side with her, she has to walk such a tightrope in terms of not being read as harsh or cold or whatever, but also looking like a leader. I just really feel for her, because I feel like that’s part of why she’s floundering right now. It’s hard to be a woman leader!

Rhiana: Tell me about it. Although, this article did warm my heart when it was like, “Women are actually very effective leaders…” I was like, thank you! That was something I struggled with a lot at Oxford, we’re talking a lot about America, but in Oxford especially, it’s a bastion of this kind of behavior and this kind of masculinity—very blustery, very opinionated. You always have something to say, even if you have no idea what the topic is. It sometimes feels like arguing for the sake of arguing, and I think it’s more undergraduates, but it seeps throughout the whole University, and a lot of the professoriate has the same attitude. It was something that I struggled with a lot, because I don’t want to have confidence that way. It doesn’t feel authentic to me. I’m no interested in pretending to know things that I don’t know. At the same time, in a place where that seemed to be the only model of confidence, how do you have confidence that’s authentic and that people respect? I only went through that for two years, around fifteen other people who were really watching me. I can’t imagine what it’s like to do that in front of a whole country, and having them judge you on it. The fact is, I feel like there are lots of discussions about vulnerability now, and emotion, and this and that, but at the end of the day there really are such limited models of confidence—especially for women. You either do these same things, and then have what happened to Hillary the first campaign, where they’re like, “She’s just pretending to be a man,” or you try to do it more authentically and people don’t want to listen to you or they accuse you of being soft or too emotional. It’s just such a ridiculous tightrope. I don’t know how you navigate.

Ivy: I think an important part of what you said was about being authentic, because I think sometimes we try to figure out what the right model is, but I think what’s been successful for me in being confident is actually working first to believe that, first to instill confidence in myself, and then to try to do some self-reflection, understand who I am, like that person. Then when I have my confidence tool, have my self-liking tool, those two forces combined – you can be authentic. That’s a nice recipe. The only thing is that you can’t guarantee that other people will respect that, or that other people will value that.

Rhiana: The main issue with Hillary is that they haven’t really established a clear voice/tone or image for her. It often feels like because she gets lost in the mix of trying to figure out how to walk this tightrope, that she doesn’t get the space to be authentic. I think that’s a shame, because when she was Secretary of State, she was shining! Girl had that whole Tumblr to her! She was dancing and drinking her beer! She was about it. Now, it just seems like that’s dissipated, and it seems to be to her detriment. That makes me very sad.


[Cheesy 90s music interlude; thank you GarageBand]


Rhiana: So, the other part of the podcast, the “deucé deucé” if you will. I don’t know why I said that second part

Ivy: I don’t think so. It sounds urban.

Rhiana: Is that a word? [ed. Note: nope.] Anyway, the “deucé deucé” section is gonna be a pop culture section lead by moi (I know, I’m putting all of the languages that I know in right now) is called, “All the T with Ivy and Rhi” shoutout to John Yi (that rhymed?) for our lovely title. Levels to this: this is just the bit where I try to get Ivy to engage with anything that happened post 2008.

Ivy: Okay, that’s true. No, no, no. I know things post 2008. I don’t know things pre-2008. I don’t watch Love and Hip Hop or The Real Housewives, that’s the realness.

Rhiana: So, this is part of my crusade to get Ivy to watch Love and Hip Hop, at least one episode, and Real Housewives.

Ivy: A full episode?

Rihana: A full episode, Ivy.

Ivy: We’ll talk. We’ll talk.

Rhiana: I’ve been trying to get you to do this forever, but now it’s not just for me, it’s for the podcast. It’s for the people! It’s market research, if you will.

Ivy: Are they paying us, because, hm.. I have enough research. My advisor is already like… I hope they never find out about this…but if they do, they’re going to be like, “Girl, didn’t we tell you to stop doing random other things and get to work?”

Rhiana: This week, we had a whole plan for what we were going to talk about, but then it got derailed by all of the beautiful black women at the Emmys. It’s just like, how often does that kind of thing happen? We cannot squander it by not speaking about it. All we’re going to be talking about this segment is the Emmys—and I’m probably going to try to talk about Love and Hip Hop too, at the same time. I’m just going to try to work it in to get you to watch someday.

Ivy: I rebuke this! I know some of the character names, so I’m going to start humming the get off the stage box song from the awards shows. (Ivy hums) I don’t know why my get off the stage box music…

Rhiana: Why is that a hymn? It’s like a spiritual.

Ivy: (begins to sing “Wade in the Water”)

Rhiana: If anyone was living in a box, this Sunday was the Emmys, and it was black girl magic all over.

Ivy: It was the best.

Rihana: Viola Davis made the blackest speech ever.

Ivy: Killed it. Oh my goodness.


Viola Davis: In my mind, I see a line, and over that line, I see green fields, and lovely flowers, and beautiful white women with their arms stretched out to me over that line, but I can’t seem to get there no how. I can’t seem to get over that line.”


Ivy: She was quoting Harriet Tubman, but nobody, I don’t know, maybe you knew?

Rhiana: No. I had no idea that was a Harriet Tubman quote. I was like, is she making this up right now? She’s talking about white women in a field, and a line? I thought she was somehow going to talk about a Vanity Fair cover, because those always be messing up.

Ivy: I was like, wait, what’s happening? First of all, I missed watching the Emmys, so I saw it on Facebook, and someone quoted it, and I still didn’t get it—but when you watch it, it was just so powerful! Basically, Viola Davis can do no wrong.

Rhiana: She absolutely cannot.

Ivy: I was like, alright, I guess we’re going to talk about nature. I don’t care that much, but like, that’s fine. Then she started talking about white women, and I was like, well, that’s kinda weird, kinda killing my vibe, I was with you in the forest or whatever, but now we’re talking about white women. Then she said the white women were reaching out, but she couldn’t get there, and I was like, dang, this is deep. I don’t know what it is; I don’t know what’s going on, but it’s really deep. Then she continued. What was the quote?

Viola Davis: Let me tell you: the only thing that separates women of color from anyone else is opportunity.

Ivy: I was like, girl!! Yesssssss!

Rhiana: Can I tell you that I actually need to listen to the Viola Davis speech again because I was so distracted by that sparse-ass clapping.

Ivy: They were not ready. She indicted all of them.

Rhiana: When the camera would pan out to the audience and you can see all of these listless white bodies shifting around.

Ivy: They were not ready. They were like, ”Damn. So that’s us. That’s me!” First of all, my friend was like, “You know, Viola was given the white ladies more credit, because I don’t see any arms outstretched.”

Rhiana: Yes. I just saw faces looking confused.

Ivy: There were no arms outstretched even embracing. So, that was kind of next level.

Rhiana: I was like, where is Meryl Streep to stand up? I'm guessing Meryl Streep wasn’t there because I’m guessing that Meryl Streep doesn’t come out for the Emmys. Meryl Streep probably stays in bed for that.

Ivy: (as Meryl) “I’ll catch you guys at the Oscars.”

Rhiana: She’s like, “I don’t come out for less than a Golden Globe, honey.”

Ivy: And then when she shouted out the litany of black women.

Rhiana: Bless her heart for putting Megan Good in there. Bless her.

Ivy: I appreciated that!

Rhiana: I appreciated it too, because I think people shade Megan Good. I actually like Megan Good’s acting. I do, honestly. It was just such a moment where she was listing Halle Berry and Taraji P Henson, and then she’s like, “Megan Good” and everybody, well maybe not everybody, but I was like-

Ivy: A lot of people.

Rhiana: I was like, Oh! Bless you for remembering that she was leading in that one show. No, she was!

Ivy: The shade, Rhiana. Rhiana, don’t shade our sister.

Rihana: I know, I’m trying to talk about sisterhood and I’m like, well, girl…

Ivy: You coming for her, and I was like, that’s not nice! Actually, when she said Gabrielle Union I thought she was going to say (how do you say her name)

Rhiana: Oh, Gabourey Sidibe?

Ivy: Yeah! I thought she was going to say her, and I was so excited because I feel like she gets lots of shade, or not even shade, just direct hate.

Rhiana: Yeah, just direct hate.

Ivy: She didn’t, but you know, it’s okay. I thought the other interesting thing about the litany of names is that they were her contemporaries. Some of them were younger than her, you know?

Rhiana: It was beautiful. I’m saying this about Megan Good, but it was beautiful. Also, she had clearly done her homework because all of them have been in leading roles in tv shows recently, and I had never heard that list together. I thought that was so cool. Also: to think that Viola Davis has your name in her head! If Viola Davis ever has my name in her head, you can’t tell me nothing. They’re going to be like, “Ma’am you didn’t pay your taxes this year.” I’ll be like, but did you hear Viola Davis say my name? On the corner of Third and Vine?

Ivy: Because I jumped out in front of her—but don't’ worry about that!

Rhiana: “I think all my debts are paid, sir. Appreciate it.”

Ivy: Right. Fall back. Just all of the black woman love and support, the whole night, was just so overwhelming.

Rhiana: Can we talk about how Taraji P is the best friend that anyone could ever have.

Ivy: Girl, she was making me tear up, and die of laughter. Who was it, Regina King?

Rhiana: Yes.

Ivy: When she announced Regina King, gave her the award, stepped back, and then audibly shouted from deep in her soul, too—


Taraji P Henson: And the Emmy goes to Regina King, American Crime. Yaaas!


Ivy: That wasn’t just like Regina King, yes. That was real deep, and that was real loud! You already know Rhiana, if you give me an award, and I’m about to give my speech and you’re in the back like, “Yaaaas!” I’m gonna look at you like, could you not? Could you just lower your voice a little bit? Cause you just scared the hell out of me.

Rhiana: I actually thought, in so many ways, and I kind of hate the word revolutionary, but I thought seeing Taraji be so supportive, openly of other women and even Viola Davis that she is competing in the same category against, was actually revolutionary.

Ivy: It was!

Rhiana: Not only because these were black women being in sisterhood in public on such a stage, but because I feel like even I struggle—to be completely frank—to always be happy for my friends. To get to that level, and to do it so publicly? Society already teaches women to fight one another, that you’re competing for scarce resources—but I imagine that Hollywood is that times three hundred.

Ivy: Right. Like you said, to be in the same category? I feel like in her head she was like, “It’s either me or her, me or her, if it’s either me or her, I’m gonna be hype!” She jumped up, she hugged her, it was just so beautiful. Kerry Washington was getting emotional.

Rhiana: Can we talk about how Kerry Washington also seems like a bomb friend? From that Apple music commercial, I’m like, Kerry, I just want to drink some barefoot red moscato with you, and kick up my feet and listen to some Anita Baker, and talk to you about how you have such a beautiful life, and trade styling tips…


[audio from Apple commercial]


Rhiana:  We can dance to some Biggie, too, girl! Whatever you want.

Ivy: That commercial was amazing. That commercial was interesting, because I was trying to think about how they decided on those three. I was intrigued because it was Taraji P. Henson, Mary J. Blige, and Kerry Washington. Obviously, Mary J. Blige is a musician, and it was Apple music, which I didn’t really get until way later, and Taraji and Kerry are two actresses who are leading these shows, but I just thought it was interesting. First of all, Apple was making a hard play for the 20s, 30s, 40s, black women.

Rhiana: They just were trying to cover all of the black women. They were like, “Were they born in the Civil Rights Movement? No? Alright, that’s our demographic.” The post-Coretta Scott King generation is what we’re shooting for.

Ivy: It was so effective. I already pay for Spotify, but I was like, do I need to switch? I don’t even know what this does or what it is, but I’m actually trying to switch right now. And I know all about capitalism and advertising and whatever, but I was like, “Here is my money, thanks for the representation! And fly dance moves!”

Rhiana: I’ve watched the commercial now three times, and I’m sure I’ll watch it more, because the first time it threw me off, because it was actually such an authentic representation of what it’s like when you’re with your girls. It doesn’t follow a commercial script, so when Taraji starts yelling about Slick Rick, I was like, “Wait a minute… did I miss the part? Is the Slick Rick even playing? I’m so confused.” Then they get to the door and Taraji is still yelling, which is great, and then Kerry Washington is like, “Hey, Mama,” and then I was like, “OH. Right.” It took me a while, because this is what it really looks like when you hang out with your girls. This isn’t staged.

Ivy: You know what I feel like it was? I feel like Apple probably already had some wack commercial, and then they were like, “Um, we’re going to do this.” They got into a huddle and were like, “Okay, you know when you come to your girl’s house and you’re getting with the playlist and you’re all hype and they’re playing your jams? Let’s do that.” Everyone just knew, and Taraji and Kerry walked out, they got the music, they were dancing on their way in, they were like, “ahhh!” it was just so natural. Then Apple was like, “Yep. This is it, because you guys are the demographic, you know.”

Rhiana: Can we talk about how at the end you just hear Kerry Washington’s voice being like, “Get that. Get that.” I was like, “Really, Kerry?” I mean, yes, do get that.

Ivy: I’m also about to get it. I’m also about to go get Apple music right now. Also, that Ava Duvernay directed it—Apple came so hard for the black women dollars, and I appreciated it. Thank you, Apple.

Rhiana: And so correct! That was also one of those moments where you’re like, diversity pays, ‘cause you know somebody brown was on that team that either pitched that commercial or approved it, something.

Ivy: You want to know what kind of commercial we would have had otherwise? They would have been on a stoop—you know those old McDonald’s commercials?

Rhiana: They would have had Mary J. Blige singing about chicken again!

Ivy: Yes!

Rhiana: I used to know the whole song!

Ivy: Yes, and then I don’t even know who, was it Mad TV that did the spoof of it? Oh my goodness. That’s exactly the kind of commercial that would have happened, and I would have been mad. I would have been so mad. Mary, why you let them do this to you? I feel like Mary actually learned from the last one and she was like, “Okay, I’m not going to sing about chicken or Apple music, or whatever, we’re going to do this.” So, thank you black people who were involved (I assume) or some super down white person who has been invited to one of these pre-game get-togethers who was like, “I know what we’ll do! One time, in college…”